Avatar and Naruto
Since the dawn of time (or in this case a few years ago) there were two great shows. One show consisted of ninjas, and another show consisted of Elemental warriors. One came from Japan, and the other looked like it came from Japan but it was actually from American and was more Korean than Japanese. People liked these shows a lot. But then one day, they argued about which show was better. I read some of these reasons and decided to make a rant.
Seriously, the Avatar and Naruto debate has gone on for long enough and Ive decided to rant about it. I clearly know which the superior show is and its Avatar. Okay, first of all, DO NOT GO ON RANTING ABOUT HOW WRONG I AM UNTIL YOUVE READ THE ESSAY! I expect my audience to have a clear and open mind about this subject. 2nd of all, this is not about power or shipping or art. Yeah, Itachi could probably kill Toph. Yeah, NaruHina might look curter than Kataang. Sure, Kishimoto could have a better art style than Nick Studios. That doesnt matter. Were talking about one thing and one thing only and thats literary value. You know the stuff you learn in school? Ill be going over plot, theme, character and etc. 3rd of all, if you disagree (which I expect a majority of you to), please state your reason in a mature and respectable fashion. DO NOT JUST GO ON AND ON ABOUT HOW IM RETARDED OR DUMB OR GAY BECAUSE THAT JUST SHOWS THE KIND OF PERSON YOU ARE!!!!!!! Now here we go on to the great debate.
Common Arguments
1. Avatars the gayest of the gay this side of San Francisco.
This is not an argument. This merely shows your ignorance in the misuse of the word gay and your intolerance for homosexuals.
2. Avatars for kids.
Gee, I didnt know death was an issue for kids. And exploring new worlds and cultures, thats for kids too. And we all know how war is just for kids because nobody besides kids talks seriously about killing each other for gain.
3. Narutos better because it has blood and cursing
*Sigh* Okay, blood is not needed to tell a good story. Lots of stories have gone without a single drop of blood in them and are still good. Good Night and good luck. Star Wars. The 40 year old Virgin. All of these dont show men bleeding or any red, flowing liquid. So why are all these so good? Because of simple narrative. It tells a story and tells it well. But blood does add realism and peril. The sight of blood shows how dangerous the situation is and strikes a serious tone. In conclusion, blood isnt necessary but is important in some cases. And profanity doesnt make a story better or worse. I, myself, dont even like to curse but I still like Lewis Black. And cursing of all things makes you look immature not the other way around.
4. Narutos from Japan and Avatars American.
Star Wars. Indiana Jones. The Godfather. Heroes. Elvis Presley. 24. All from the U.S.A. There are just as many good things from Japan as there are from America. Different origins do not differentiate art.
5. Naruto has more characters.
Its about quality not quantity! Sure Naruto has more characters. But most of these characters are more about the powers than they are about character. Some of these guys are just a one note character. Temari has a giant fan. Kankuro can control puppets. Tenten uses ninja weapons. Zetsus a plant. Hindan is a foul-mouthed preacher. Theyre all too simple. Gaara wants to be loved. Rock Lee works hard. Neji has a problem with destiny. They dont show that much range.
But look at Avatar. Jet lost his parents in the war and wants to wipe out civilian and enemy. Lee looks up to Zuko at one point but hates him in the end. Long Feng decides to keep out of the war to be comfortable as the puppet master. They all have good stories and good motivation.
Plot
Wikipedia: In narritive, a plot or storyline is the rendering and ordering of the events and actions of a story, particularly towards the achievement of some particular artistic or emotional effect.
Typical Plot Structure:
1. Initial situation - the beginning. It is the first incident that makes the story move.
2. Conflict or Problem - goal which the main character of the story has to achieve.
3. Complication or Rising action- obstacles which the main character has to overcome.
4. Climax - highest point of interest of the story.
5. Suspense or Falling action- point of tension. It arouses the interest of the readers.
6. Dénouement or Resolution - what happens to the character after overcoming all obstacles/failing to achieve the desired result and reaching/not reaching his goal.
7. Conclusion - the end result of the climax
To those of you not familiar these rules, lets use Tite Kubos Bleach as an example.
1. Initial situation-Ichigo saves his family by becoming a Shinigami.
2. Conflict or Problem-Rukia, who gave Ichigo her powers, will be executed by the Soul Society. Ichigo must rescue her.
3. Complication or Rising Action-Ichigo faces the Court 13 squad members, each stronger than the last.
4. Climax-Ichigo must master Bankai to beat Byakuya, his main opponent, to save Rukia.
5. Suspense or Falling action-Ichigo vs. Byakuya
6. Dénouement or Resolution-Ichigo saves Rukia, only to have Aizen become a potential threat to him.
7. Conclusion-Aizen is a new enemy as Ichigo, his friends and especially Rukia survives.
Now not all stories follow this rule. There are certainly exceptions. But its basically this. Somebody wants something. They fight to get that something. The whole story revolves around that. DBZ: Gohan wants to be a scholar. Cell wants to destroy the world. Thats conflict. Bleach: Ichigo wants to save Rukia. Renjis in the way. Conflict. One Piece: Luffy wants to be Pirate King. But the Government captures one of his nakama. Conflict.
The one of the problems with Naruto is the plot. Naruto fails the exam, but wants to be Hokage. He learns that hes a demon. Conflict. Hes deciding whether to leave or stay. But his teacher says that Narutos a proud Konoha Ninja. Kishimoto does a fantastic origin story. So the plot should follow him becoming Hokage. But guess what? It doesnt. Chunnin arc introduces a bunch of characters. It shows steady progress of him being Hokage. Pre-eliminations. Still makes progress, however it still has a lot of secondary characters clogging the plot. Finals: It should show him passing but guess what. Villain decides to change plot to destroy village and Naruto ends up fighting Gaara. Okay the Sasuke gets owned by Itachi which then Naruto has to find Tsunade. Learns new move. Okay still. Then comes Sasuke Retrieval. Best Friend decides to leave and then
the conflict changes. What is going on? The whole point of this was to see Naruto become Hokage. But no. It concentrates on finding Sasuke now. It should be considered part of a conflict not conflict itself. It doesnt even do a well enough job of convincing to go after Sasuke.
Now look at Avatar. Boy is broken out of ice. Turns out to be savior of the world. Aang has to save the world. He needs to master all the elements. Problem: Elements take years to master. Sozins comet is coming. Problem: He needs to master all the elements by summers end. Problem: He needs to learn firebending from the enemy whove taken over everything. See, Avatar has a true plot. Its simple yet complex. It has a desire and the character works to achieve said desire.
Theme
Themes are the idea of the work. The thing that answers, Why was this written?
Naruto: Most of Narutos themes come from a specific person. Gaara fights to exist. His theme is to only fight for oneself. Rock Lees theme is that hard work will pay off. Nejis theme is destiny cannot be defied. These themes are either supported or fought against. The characters have different ideas in life.
Avatar: The idea of war. Avatar constantly asks How far are we willing to go to win? Jet is willing to kill innocents to gain a victory. Zhao is willing to purge a spirit to conquer the Northern Tribe. Even an Earthbending General wants to tap into the Avatar State to destroy the Fire Nation. It deals whether or not if any tactic is too far. It also displays overcoming physical obstacles. Teo (episode The Northern Air Temple) takes up to the skies regardless of his legs. Toph is blind, yet she overcomes her disability with superior Earthbending. Power through pain.
You see? Naruto is internally driven. Avatar is externally driven.
Fights
Naruto: Naruto uses a lot of strategy. This isnt a bad thing. Its only natural to fight smartly. However, these fights also use a lot of jutsus. And these Jutsus require explanations. Okay, the problem with these explanations is that they start getting more and more ridiculous. Naruto transforms into a giant shuriken. Okay. If you apply enough chakra constantly, you can walk on water.
Sure why not? When Rasengan and Chidori collide, their chakra will explode and-Okay thats enough! These explanations can just bog down a fight and leave you confused. Also, a lot of the characters powers require a lot of explanation. Everytime a new character fights, its another explanation. But thats not all. Oh no, theres also a back story. See everytime a person is about to lose, they get a nifty flash back. (See Haku, Zabuza, Hinata, Rock Lee, Neji, Gaara, Kimimaro, Sasuke etc.) Okay, motivation is required and it does make sense to hear these stories, but not in the middle of a battle. A prime example is Naruto vs. Neji. Kishimoto does a spectacular job of making Neji an antagonist: beating up Hinata, putting down Naruto and discouraging Lee. And what happens. Kishimoto makes him sympathetic. It doesnt need to be in the middle of a fight. Creating a character to relate to can be done before the fight, (i.e. Zukos story.) or after the fight (i.e. Kenpachis story)
Avatar: The fights are much quicker and faster paced. They are based on elements as well as actual Kung fu (Airbending= Ba Gua, Waterbending= Tai Chi, Earth Bending= Hung Gar and Firebending= Northern Shaolin) It establishes conflict without complicating it. Simple, Aang has to save the world, and Zuko wants to get Aang. They fight. It works.
Relationships
Naruto: Much of the relationships are for fans but are still very deep. Gaara is scared by his uncle. Rock Lee is inspired by Gai-sensei. (Gai-Sensei!) Even Naruto looks up to Iruka once in a while. But romance is one of those things that escape it. The problem isnt romance itself but rarely does it do anything important. Hinata gets up because of Naruto. Fine. Sakura gets strong to find Sasuke. Thats cool too. But not that great.
Avatar: Zuko and Iroh shows a prime example of a father son relationship. The characters interact in way thats believable and entertaining. But it also can get in the way. Sokka/Yue. Sokka obviously loves her. But shes already engaged and has duties. This can cause a problem to Aang who needs to learn Waterbending. Zuko/Jin. Jin kisses Zuko. He pulls away. She asks, Whats wrong? He says, Its complicated. Conflict within Zuko. Katara/Aang. Aang must abandon all earthly attachments to reach the peak of his power. Just as he has it in his grasp, he sees Katara in trouble. He leaves. Guru Pathik warns him that if he leaves, he can never enter the Avatar state. He leaves anyway. See, the relationships have to do with the plot.
Okay, weve established a lot of things. These shows are very different. They all have their conflicts and their themes. So what sets these two apart? What makes one superior to another? Just one factor.
Supporting Character
Why? Because the Supporting Character plays a prominent role of the story, so much that he changes the very direction it can turn. Here is going to be a deep analysis of Sasuke Uchiha and Prince Zuko of the Fire Nation.
Sasuke Uchiha: Let me make one thing clear. I never liked Sasuke. Not because he left Konoha and made Sakura cry (please, it was written over his face.) Its not even because of the alleged emo role. Its that his motivation
FLAT
OUT
STINKS. Revenge this, revenge that. Train to kill Itachi. Sleep to kill Itachi. Eat to kill Itachi. Itachi, Itachi, Itachi, its all he EVER talks about. EVER!
Wikipedia: Mary Sue, sometimes shortened simply to Sue, is a pejorative term used to describe a fictiona character, either male or female (though male characters are often dubbed "Larry Stu" or some other rhyming male name), that exhibits some or most of the clichés common in fan fiction, making the character itself something of a cliché. A subconcept of this is the Angsty Sue. "Angsty" Sue has a tragic past, but rather than crying about it seeks revenge for what's been done to her family/home village/civilization, etc. She is thrust into the spotlight of the story while doing so. The writer uses her past not merely as a device to gain sympathy, but also to claim moral superiority and justification for her actions; as such, this type of "Angsty Sue" rarely has unnecessary guilt.
See, Sasuke isnt only bad, hes cliché. Hes simplistic and shows only 3 emotions: smug (i.e. calling Naruto a Scaredy cat), angry (i.e. Itachi shows up.) and jealous, (i.e. Naruto instead beats Gaara ). Revenge is a touchy subject and if done wrong, the character is just simple. Example: FullMetal Alchemists Scar wants revenge but comtemplates another road, a road of peace. When he comtemplates creating a Philosphers stone, a voice reminds him that, Those who cause the suffering never rest. Scar has a choice, kill hundreds to achieve a goal or be at peace and do nothing. He says, Then Ill never sleep again. Sasuke, however, is just a 12 year old genin who has his whole life figured out. You dont plan on killing a person when youre 12 not even 15. It needs some serious thinking and this author is not impressed.
Sasukes the whole reason Naruto has changed its plot. Now the story just follows him and his quest for revenge. Its silly, stupid and not worth mentioning.
Zuko: A wonderfully complex character, Zuko manages to be angsty for good reason and shows true character design. From his introduction, Zuko wants one thing, his honor. To gain his honor, he must capture and deliver the Avatar. But his origin story is even more complex. Defending new recruits, Zuko is punished by facing off in Agni Kai. He is shocked to find his father facing him. He breaks down and pleads for forgiveness but is left with nothing but a scar. Overshadowed by Azula, he stuggles to find his place. He portays the hypocrite as one moment he swears loyalty to the Fire Nation, and the next, he is the Blue Spirit trying to gain his own goal. Even against his enemies, he tries to rescue them, even if they dont want it. (i.e. Zhao doesnt want help when being pulled into the water).
Things get even more complex when he is branded a tratior in Book 2. On the run with his uncle, he cuts off his royal bondage and tries to start a new life. We see more into his past as he tries to hide his identity in a small town. Only when his mother reminds him to , Remember who you are, does he reveal himself. A Fire Nation prince. Traveling to Ba Sing Se, he seems irritable with his new life at the tea shop. When he goes again as the Blue Spirit to try to capture Aang by ambushing him near Aangs bison, Iroh confronts him, telling him that he doesnt think ahead and following a destiny that is forced upon him. Its time to start asking yourself the big questions in life. Who are you? What do you want? He throws down his mask and releases Appa. He, then, gets sick and gets dementsia. He wonders to listen to the Blue Dragon (His sister) or the Red Dragon (Iroh). He even has dreams of being the Avatar. Zuko faces conflict. Its called Character Development and its flippin beautiful. When he rejoins his nation at the end of Book 2, I felt a strong urge of dissapointment. But when I felt that, I realized how good Avatar was.
And thats it. If you have any opinions, complaints, arguments or anything silly, say it in a respectable manner. And remember just because I like something doesnt mean the same for you. Just give me a reason.















Comments
Its about quality not quantity! Sure Naruto has more characters. But most of these characters are more about the powers than they are about character. Some of these guys are just a one note character. Temari has a giant fan. Kankuro can control puppets. Tenten uses ninja weapons. Zetsus a plant. Hindan is a foul-mouthed preacher. Theyre all too simple. Gaara wants to be loved. Rock Lee works hard. Neji has a problem with destiny. They dont show that much range.
But look at Avatar. Jet lost his parents in the war and wants to wipe out civilian and enemy. Lee looks up to Zuko at one point but hates him in the end. Long Feng decides to keep out of the war to be comfortable as the puppet master. They all have good stories and good motivation."
You sort of lost me here. You more or less said Naruto characters have no depth, how do you expect them to when describe them in blunt, simple sentences?
I mean, I could just as easily say; Jet's like a crooked cop of some sort, minor character Lee worships Zuko for a bit, Long Feng has Naraku syndrome.
That's essentially what you did for the Naruto characters. Most of the major characters have pasts and lives just as fascinating and conflicted as the major characters in Avatar, and both shows manage to squeeze in a bit of character depth and such for the minor characters.
I just think your essay seems a bit biased, because I happen to like Naruto and Avatar about the same, and a bit of your reasoning seemed more like random opinion to me. I haven't read past number five though.
But do you get what I'm saying about the characters thing? Naruto characters actually aren't just about their powers, they all have something more than that! I mean, if I were anti-avatar and I was using similar reasoning to yours, I could say that the avatar characters were basically about bending.
I doubt that I'm even making sense anymore, and I've become a bit repetive, so I'll just stop myself now.
I hope you see what I mean though,
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Fan of SarahxJareth
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Hardcore Harvest Moon fangirl! Fave bachelors: Julius, Gill, Chase, and Vaughn! <3
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Ladies, sing with me!
Vodka, we need some vodka~!
We need some vodka~!
WE NEED SOME VOOOOODDDDKKKKAAAAA~!
HEY!
On the side, What's Naraku syndrome?
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You want to know the best anime out there? This is my top 10. And Naruto's # 9. [link]
Avatar pwns Naruto in every concievable way, and I know why. [link]
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Fan of SarahxJareth
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Hardcore Harvest Moon fangirl! Fave bachelors: Julius, Gill, Chase, and Vaughn! <3
-----
Ladies, sing with me!
Vodka, we need some vodka~!
We need some vodka~!
WE NEED SOME VOOOOODDDDKKKKAAAAA~!
HEY!
You're totally right about Naruto. I have noticed a lot of Mary Sue like things going on there. Sasuke ESPECIALLY. However, I do think he DID have some good reason to be angsty. You can only expect it to be pretty darn traumatizing to see your entire family killed by the person you looked up to most. But it probably would have turned out better if he sought a different path than 'revenge'. He and Naruto kinda had a brotherlike relationship going on for a while. If that had been developed on a little more, and if Sasuke had his moments where he might have actually considered choosing a different path, then he MIGHT have become a more likable character. Then it might have actually been a tragedy when he left....
On relationships, however, all I have to say is this. The sort of manga/anime Naruto is doesn't fall into the category of intimate relationships. I honestly don't think Kishimoto has the 'shoujo' touch it takes to make a good romance. Sakura, for instance. The night Sasuke left, she would've thrown everything away to be with him at twelve years old! How does anyone fall in love at twelve years old??? But, like I said, Naruto isn't that sort of manga/anime. Avatar, on the other hand, like you said, does an excellent job on developing relationships.
For the plot, you're right about Avatar. It's a simple plot at first, but in the end there's so many hoops to jump throught before the ultimate goal is reached. There is one thing I disagree with you thought about Naruto. Granted, Naruto decides he wants to be hokage towards the beginning, but I think ultimately, it's not about Naruto becoming hokage, it's about his development as a person faced with huge obstacles for someone his age and a very lonely childhood. I honestly don't think Kishimoto will ever make Naruto a hokage! He wanted to be hokage in the first place because he wanted people to recognize him, to accept him, and to acknowedge his existence. As the plot progresses, Naruto actually achieves most those goals, ridding him of the reasons he ever wanted to be hokage in the first place. Acceptance is what I kinda think the actual goal is. (By the way, I LOVED how you summerized the theme for avatar. "How far are we willing to go to win?" OMG, that was so perfect!)
Regardless, however, Avatar and Naruto are both vastly popular shows. So at least we know they're both doing something right. ^w^ If you actually read this far, then may I say, 'Thank you!'. From an avid Avatar and Naruto fan, this was quite excellent!
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SnooPING AS usual, I see!
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You want to know the best anime out there? This is my top 10. And Naruto's # 9. [link]
Avatar pwns Naruto in every concievable way, and I know why. [link]
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SnooPING AS usual, I see!
Avatar mainly focuses on the past and drama.So therefore I argue that Naruto is better.
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~drawing-sasukeI LUV DRAWING SASUKE!!
As for the shows themselves, I haven't watched nearly enough of Avatar, but what I've seen of the show I've really liked, and it's fairly easy to jump into. I think it's really stupid how some people would dismiss the show simply because it's American. It makes them no better than the people who say anime isn't art.
As for Naruto, I watched some of the beginning episodes, read the first few two volumes of manga...I find it interesting that the ninjas have walkie-talkies and mouth pieces, but...other than that, don't have ANY modern technology. It seems kind of odd to me, and the setting doesn't feel as completely developed as Avatar's.
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Love me cancerously, like a salt sore soaked in the sea.
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You want to know the best anime out there? This is my top 10. And Naruto's # 9. [link]
Avatar pwns Naruto in every concievable way, and I know why. [link]
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You want to know the best anime out there? This is my top 10. And Naruto's # 9. [link]
Avatar pwns Naruto in every concievable way, and I know why. [link]
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